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This is ridiculous (10 posts)

  1. brockangelo
    Posted 16 years ago #

    I came here from this heated post on the codex. I am not a system administrator - everything that I know has been self-taught after using my host's 1-click install of the original WP and then pouring through the codex.

    Of course, non-system admins are interested in MU now because the description of MU makes it sound like "heck, its just a wrapper around what you know already". I'm trying to install it locally and I'm finding that is not the case.

    Again, I'm not a sys-admin, but I do feel like I know quite a bit about running WP. Most of the people who are even on this forum know quite a bit about wordpress. The challenge with MU and the reason why there are so many heated debates is that there is no 1-click install with this. And I understand why there can't be.

    I would like to see a bigger push for local installs so that people can get a feel for what's going on before hitting up the MUcodex with questions, only to get flamed. I'm trying to do a local install myself before messing with users and pissing off the codex.

    So, that is a long tangent. Here's why I'm here: I think it would be valuable to new users and qualified sys-admins for someone to establish a definitive step-by-step guide to installing the MU locally. I'd also like to see this encouraged on the WPMU front page so that people don't jump in unknowingly - the MU forums are a much nastier place than the original codex forums.

    Yes, I know a step by step tutorial would be time consuming and would depend on the system being used. But a Win XP and an Ubuntu version are going to cover about 80% of the users. I like what andrea_r is doing with

    Okay, to summarize: I think we need to encourage local installs first - and I'd love it if a sys-admin would step up with a step-by-step guide with screenshots and the works. I would chip in a donation and I imagine many others would too. It might make this area a much happier place.

  2. ala101
    Posted 16 years ago #

    iam still new to wpmu so iam still learning it.
    When i become a pro i will write all novice tutorials inshaallah ;)

  3. theapparatus
    Posted 16 years ago #

    Well, to be honest, that was probably not the best way to write up or title your first post here. Making an attack against those folks trying to help usually is not a good idea. Kind of like yelling at the Red Cross while you make a donation.

    The largest problem that seems to occur around here at that folks do not read the readme file included within the download and understand the concepts included. Most folks just assume that wpmu is just like regular wordpress and, unfortunely that's not true. Seems like most of the volunteers here can tell when that file hasn't been read with how a poster writes up their question or doesn't include the required information mentioned in that file.

    To be honest though, looking at the thread that you point at, that person was in over their head. The folks here did not attack him. The poster was the one who lashed out when he didn't get the reply that he wanted. He was given the correct answer along with a warning that he may be in for more than he can handle. Do you think that person could run this site? How about this one? Or this one? What would you do if your install got mentioned in the media and you had 100k blogs created over night? There's even a warning in the readme file that explains that wpmu is not for new users.

    Gotta admit though that, while I see your point, a local install as a test bed would probably not be a good idea, especially for new users. Folks here then would have to be explaining even more advanced concepts like apache setup, mail server settings, etc. Most new installs, while it's not suggested, seem to start out on shared hosting accounts where all this is already in place.

    Just some thoughts.

  4. andrea_r
    Posted 16 years ago #

    It;s not that much different than a regualr WP instyal locally, although there are things to watch out for.

    I'll put it on my list though.

    (Darn, I knew I should have written it up when I had it installed locally on my windows box.)

  5. SteveAtty
    Posted 16 years ago #

    I run a local copy on my laptop to run up new code.

    I however do cheat a bit by setting the domain of my live site as the localhost address in my windows box and I've got apache (in a WAMP setup) configured to host that domain.

    It means that whilst I'm developing I can't access the live site from my laptop but it does mean I can pull the live site over to debug specific problems

  6. andrea_r
    Posted 16 years ago #

    There's also instructiosn here using WAMP -

  7. brockangelo
    Posted 16 years ago #

    @theapparatus - I agree: the biggest problem here is that people are installing it before they understand what it is. I think people are reading the README, but more likely it is that they don't fully understand what everything means.

    As a sys-admin, you would say: "just don't install it"

    As a WPMU newbie, they say: "let me try it out"

    I think this could easily be fixed by changing the FAQ page - it is very misleading:

    Basically WordPress MU is a wrapper around the core WP code...but it'd be safe to say that 95-99% of MU is core WP.

    This says to the non-sys-admin: if you've got a WP installed already, you can handle MU. I like that the caution-note in the README header takes it a step further, but I don't think this caution is working - besides, the FAQ made it sound so convincing.

    I think people in the forum are dealing with such a high volume of beginner requests because of this. People are just jumping in, and that's a good thing - but I don't think we are funneling beginners in any particular direction.

    I think the FAQ needs to be reworded. I also think it should link to something like "User Requirements" that clarifies what the user is getting into and the kind of experience they should have with working server-side. Having done a 1-click install is not enough, wouldn't you agree?

    It also think it would be worthwhile to have a WPMU beginner section. I know people have said that they don't think this is the place to teach Apache and local installs, but it seems to me that more and more people are asking all of that in the forums anyway. What would be so bad about having a section on Apache? and on Local Installs using WAMP, XAMPP, etc. At least if a newbie saw all of this ahead of time, they may look at it and decide that it wasn't really for them after all. These questions keep coming up, and it would save considerable time and frustration to just be able to point new users to the WPMUB section that walks them through a local install and helps them *understand* apache, if they decide to proceed.

    Well, that's my two cents.

  8. heyguy
    Posted 16 years ago #

    Try if you want to know how Apache works. RTFM and all that, just like many of us had to do. Google is also a great tool and will point you to cheat sheets if you prefer that method.

    Many people have documented the hell out of Apache, so no, I do not see much benefit in replicating that work here. The readme is sufficient in it's outline of what needs to be changed in httpd.conf. If someone is not capable of googling <VirtualHost> or whatever directive they don't understand, they should not be messing with httpd.conf anyway. It's not hard to learn the stuff, but Apache is as complicated as you want to make it and its underlying structure and operating environment is outside the scope of this forum.

    My 2c anyway.

  9. theapparatus
    Posted 16 years ago #

    I think people are reading the README, but more likely it is that they don't fully understand what everything means.

    I politely disagree with that statement as most posters are missing the last section of that file when they post here.

    Also if you review the questions new users ask, you will quickly discover that understanding the readme file is not the cause of their issues. If understanding was the issue, we would be seeing more questions with "I don't understand how to set up a wildcard" instead of what we do get here. (ie "I don't see my new blog. What did I do wrong?" The cause being that they didn't setup the wildcard.)

    I also think it should link to something like "User Requirements" that clarifies what the user is getting into and the kind of experience they should have with working server-side.

    That's the purpose of a read me file. You'll also note under the docs link at the top, the very first line is to the readme file which contains the warning right at the top.

    I think the FAQ needs to be reworded.

    Then feel free to step up and submit a new FAQ via the trac system. Not trying to be impolite but it's one thing to express your annoyance over something. It's another to actively work towards a common goal.

    And I've got to agree with heyguy. Duping docs would probably be a wasted effort. It would also be a wasted effort as all that is involved is adding in a total of two lines. One to Apache and one to your DNS. In addition, every body's setup is different. We can't tell you where one's httpd.conf file is as for different platforms, it's in different places. For example, you mentioned Ubuntu. Here's the search for Ubuntu. As a comparison, here's the search for Fedora and for redhat. Everyone's setup is different and it's kind of hard to pin a single set of instructions to the software. We had a discussion a few months ago where a poster's config file was in a nonstandard place.


  10. lunabyte
    Posted 16 years ago #

    Nothing locate can't tackle, unless it was recently installed and locate wasn't updated. ;)

    Is MU Right For Me?

About this Topic

  • Started 16 years ago by brockangelo
  • Latest reply from lunabyte